Did the President Lie? Illegal Immigrants and HR 3200
71What Obama said:
"There are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false. The reforms -- the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally."
Joe Wilson called this a lie.
What does the bill say?
Well, it's complicated.
There are two different aspects of the bill that apply, and there are also laws currently in place that apply as well.
From the Congressional Research Service report "Treatment of NonCitizens in HR 3200":
"Notably, the IRC [Internal Revenue Code]does not contain special rules for individuals who are in the United States without authorization (i.e., illegal or unauthorized aliens). Instead, the IRC treats these individuals in the same manner as other foreign nationals—an unauthorized individual who has been in the United States long enough to qualify under the substantial presence test is classified as a resident alien; otherwise, the individual is classified as a nonresident alien. Thus, it would appear that unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test would be required under H.R. 3200 to have health insurance.
Exchange
Under H.R. 3200, a “Health Insurance Exchange” would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option. The Exchange would not be an insurer; it would provide eligible individuals and small businesses with access to insurers’ plans,including the public option, in a comparable way. Individuals would only be eligible to enroll in an Exchange plan if they were not enrolled in other acceptable coverage (for example, from an employer, Medicare and generally Medicaid). H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitizens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange. However, as discussed above, H.R. 3200 would only mandate that resident aliens would be required to have health insurance." emphasis mine
In other words: Everyone who resides in America, as a legal citizen or not, would be required to have health insurance. All of these people would have access to the exchange if they were unable to get other types of insurance.
There is no such thing as an illegal alien under the Internal Revenue Code. The IRS does not recognize a difference between legal and illegal immigrants. Therefore, if you meet residency requirements, i.e. live in the US most of the year, etc., you will be required by HR 3200 to have insurance or pay a tax penalty.
Another important part of the bill is section 246, which explicitly states:
SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
It is a fact that hospital emergency rooms cannot turn people away, whether they are insured or not, illegal or not. But HR 3200 would not provide a mechanism for the government to use your tax money to pay for illegal aliens.
Conclusion? The President did not lie, but Joe Wilson could argue that he did, indeed lie. The bill, as written, is exactly as the president said. In practice, however, there could be some wiggle room.
Edit: In response to political pressure on this issue, the White House has issued a statement prohibiting illegals from participating in the exchange.
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Thanks for commenting, Ralph.
Insurance costs would actually go down if illegals paid into the same system. Insurance is a shared risk pool. The more people who buy into that risk pool, the more money there is to pay for the people who get sick. It's pretty simple math, and there's really no reason for people to be opposed to illegals buying insurance. Getting free healthcare might be another matter but that's what is prohibited by Section 246.
Excellent hub. You spelled it out very honestly and clearly.
I agree with your comment above as well. I don't advocate subsidizing them, but there's no logical reason not to encourage them to pay into the system.
Illegal vs Legal?
That is the question? Or rather how one defines Illegal aliens. If a person is here illegally, whether or not the IRC calls them illegal, they are illegal. Even if you call them resident aliens, they are still illegal! "The reforms -- the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally." Is a lie. They are illegal and they will have access to be insured.
"But HR 3200 would not provide a mechanism for the government to use your tax money to pay for illegal aliens." I disagree with this statement, based on insurance being a risk pool. Yes, they would be paying for minor health issues if they bought into the system. However, for major health issues the remaining cost would be paid through the pool, which includes my tax money along with the rest of the LEGAL citizens' taxes!
And one could then argue that with the current state of mexico that we would see an influx of border crossings just to get access to healthcare, even those with pre-existing conditions at a cost to US taxpayers.
Illegal is illegal and a lie is a lie no matter how you word it!
Thanks for the comment Jeff.
You said:
"They are illegal and they will have access to be insured. "
As it is, illegals who are uninsured can get basically free medical care by going to an emergency room. Your tax dollars help subsidize this. Allowing them access to insurance programs would mean that they would be paying for their own healthcare as well as yours and your families.
In any case, illegal immigrants can already buy insurance if they want it, so HR 3200 will not change anything.
"'But HR 3200 would not provide a mechanism for the government to use your tax money to pay for illegal aliens.' I disagree with this statement, based on insurance being a risk pool."
Nope, what I said is exactly true. Illegal aliens will not receive tax subsidies under HR 3200 to purchase insurance. Will there still be expenses that the government picks up? Yes - but see above - those costs are already here and reform will cut those costs.
Hospitals will no longer lose money on uninsured patients. This will bring costs down. More people will pay into the insurance pool - this will also bring costs down.
"And one could then argue that with the current state of mexico that we would see an influx of border crossings just to get access to healthcare, even those with pre-existing conditions at a cost to US taxpayers."
Doubtful, since Mexico already provides guaranteed healthcare to its citizens.
"Illegal is illegal and a lie is a lie no matter how you word it!"
Except when it's not a lie.
Thanks for your response!
You said:
"In any case, illegal immigrants can already buy insurance if they want it, so HR 3200 will not change anything."
You have just made the point! By saying that HR 3200 does not prevent them from buying insurance, it would then have to provide a means for them to buy insurance. Thus, it does provide healthcare for illegal immigrants.
So, when the President says this bill does not insure illegal citizens, it is a lie.
You even say in your own words:
"In other words: Everyone who resides in America, as a legal citizen or not, would be required to have health insurance." Or not in this case means illegal. Again, illegal is illegal and a lie is a lie.
You also say:
"Doubtful, since Mexico already provides guaranteed healthcare to its citizens."
True, but we can't keep them out of the country now. If given the choice between healthcare in Mexico and the U.S., in addition to a better quality of life, its clear that there will be more crossings. More illegal citizens creates additional burden to the legal taxpayers. If you want true reform then we must block healthcare for illegal immigrants. In addition, any illegal citizen, who seeks medical attention, should be required to become legal or be deported. Or, make them all legal taxpaying citizens, with an additional tax penalty for breaking the law to begin with. This will end the whole illegal versus legal debate!
However, back to the original argument.
You said: "Except when it's not a lie." Above, I have proven, in your own words, that it is in fact a lie.
On a secondary note; I am not sure I want a corrupt Government to control my healthcare. I believe our first step in solving the problem is to erase the corruption in Washington!
Lie or No lie do we want our government who ran Socialsecurity into the ground, medicare doesn't work well either, and for the most recent Cash For clunkers. If the government can not run these why would we allow them to run our health care system. read the whole document and you will see why you wouldn't. Ration our health care, they have complete access to our personal and financial records obama has done a 180 since in office i had seen it coming wish other people had. Out of iraq/afghanistan in 6 months, end the patriot act, Etc... president after president all the same I want an accountant in the office sure people would hate the accountant also but we wouldn't be in debt.
JEFF ALLEN SAID IT THE BEST.........
Illegal is illegal and a lie is a lie no matter how you word it!
Nice and informative hub. But did you knoe w that God did not create illegal peiple. while I agree this is amajor problem, I lived in mexico 8 1/2 years and have met some of the kindest and simple people I have ever met.
Warmest regards,
Chris
Thank you Christal! I agree with you, but I used the words illegal since that was the word people were using.
Ralph Deeds Level 6 Commenter 2 years ago
If I'm not mistaken health care is provided to everyone, legal and illegal, by government programs in many European countries, France for example.